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1. Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2017 09:23:37 UTC Danyl Strype

   • paulfree14
   @paulfree14 a brief history of money can be found in a blog piece I did a few weeks back
   http://qttr.at/1r0a
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Sunday, 30-Apr-2017 11:08:39 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @mjd @jeffcliff Even right-libertarians are now looking into #MMT
     http://qttr.at/1t4r
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Monday, 01-May-2017 01:09:17 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff what's the "greatcloudwall"?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Monday, 01-May-2017 04:27:30 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff I've certainly had my doubts about #Cloudflare but AFAICT all their code is free. #CDNs are a useful service for small sites
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Monday, 01-May-2017 04:28:40 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff I worked on a site that uses #Cloudflare. It's handy for new sysadmins who can't yet roll their own caching, load balancing etc
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Monday, 01-May-2017 04:29:49 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff it's a lifesaver if you're a small organisation with one part-time sysadmin/webmaster who gets DDOSed or major spambot attacks
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Monday, 01-May-2017 12:11:40 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff if and when they get acquired, I would advise the project I worked on to switch to another CDN provider. Maybe a platform coop?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Monday, 01-May-2017 12:12:23 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff that's melodramatic. All those small sites would just switch to another CDN, or point their domain name back at their own server
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Monday, 01-May-2017 12:13:46 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff I actually wrote to Stallman at one point asking him to condemn them for similar reasons to the FUD you're spreading here.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Monday, 01-May-2017 12:14:24 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff  He patiently worked through each one of my criticisms over a series of emails. I ended up with a more nuanced viewpoint
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Monday, 01-May-2017 13:04:54 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @maiyannah read the whole thead. #Cloudbleed is not #FUD. The doom and gloom comments by @jeffcliff are. No offence bro, that's what I think
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Monday, 01-May-2017 16:18:38 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff sure. If you suggest a replacement that's usable right now, I'll happily suggest it to my former clients. I'm no great fan of #CF
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 06:57:53 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @jeffcliff @maiyannah any ideas about replacements for #Cloudflare I could recommend to the folks I know using it?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 13:47:01 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @jeffcliff @maiyannah #Cloudflare is a problem *looks around for problem to solve itself*... *tumbleweeds*...
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:00:49 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @jeffcliff @maiyannah I knew Ubuntu and Android were problems before I knew about #Trisquel and #Replicant
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:03:44 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @jeffcliff @maiyannah but until I learned about and got hardware able to run them (still waiting with Replicant) I had to eat shit soup
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:04:25 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @jeffcliff @maiyannah I agree with you both that #Cloudflare is shit soup, but dammit my clients are desperate and hungry right now ;P
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:05:50 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @maiyannah @jeffcliff some data is more sensitive than other data. You're free to drive a tank, but it doesn't mean every needs to drive one
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:06:24 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @jeffcliff @maiyannah some people happily trade the security of a tank for the agility of a motorbike (not to mention the different in fuel)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:08:00 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @maiyannah @jeffcliff don't mistake my rough humour for lack of interest, it helps having folks like you to point to cut through the noise
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:09:05 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @jeffcliff @maiyannah I've glanced at a shitload of glossy start-up sites promoting "distributed" stuff, now I know IPFS is worth a look
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:10:21 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @maiyannah @jeffcliff I ride a bicycle and like to walk in bare feet ;P (people who spray broken glass around are my only serious enemies)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:12:10 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek @jeffcliff thanks for the tip. Looks great! Let me know how your testing goes. I know a few community group clients who might use it
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:12:56 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     • rysiek ✅
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @rysiek @jeffcliff @maiyannah I think in this metaphor the likes of CloudFront and CloudFlare are buses and trains
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:14:13 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @maiyannah @jeffcliff good plan. If #Drupal intergrated it the clients I've been discussing wouldn't have touched #Cloudflare or #Cloudfront
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:15:48 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • rysiek ✅
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @jeffcliff @rysiek @maiyannah great creaking edifices controlled by megacorps, but cheap, effective, simple to use and readily available
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:17:31 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     • rysiek ✅
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @jeffcliff @rysiek @maiyannah the motorbike was referencing an earlier point in this thread about public-facing sites with no sensitive data
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:20:15 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @maiyannah this was the #Tent vision (as I understood it), abstracting storage from applications, whether local or remote (in either case)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:25:24 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @maiyannah sounds sensible. Sean from Diaspora suggested that one of the reasons Tent failed was unwillingness to work with what existed
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:26:52 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @maiyannah #Tent thought they could bring a new standard of new protocols into existence by fiat. The textbook case of:
     http://qttr.at/1r9r
   • [MOVED] Christopher Webber (cwebber)'s status on Tuesday, 02-May-2017 14:33:26 UTC [MOVED] Christopher Webber

     in reply to

     • Maiyannah Bishop

     @strypey @maiyannah Tent was the one group that we contacted in trying to get federated projects to join the SocialWG that straight up expressed disinterest in collaboration on anything that wasn't their present design.

   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 02:04:15 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff @mjd what about this archived version of the #MMT article? Formatting is a bit shredded but text is there
     http://qttr.at/1tbe
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 02:06:16 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • [MOVED] Christopher Webber
     @cwebber classic cathedral builders, unable to cope with the mess and noise of the bazaar ;)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 02:14:31 UTC Danyl Strype

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek mass transit tends to work better when publicly owned, although my preference is platform coop rather than government ownership
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 02:15:48 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek in Aotearoa some cities have experimented with publicly designed bus systems where private companies tender for the routes
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 02:18:22 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek it can work, especially with universally accepted payment cards, and well planned integration w/ trains/ ferries/ intercity services
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 02:20:21 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek but if one company ends up with all the routes, as happened in most cities, the public planning is effectively corporate welfare
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 05:01:35 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Matthew Davidson
     @mjd it does preclude the goldbug myths and the anti-semitic angle on bank critique that seem so common in right-liberty and truther circles
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 05:03:08 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Matthew Davidson
     @mjd I took that article as a hopeful sign that the #libersphere might be on the verge of turning around and heading back to planet Earth
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 05:43:01 UTC Danyl Strype

     • presentBoyfriend?
     • [MOVED] Christopher Webber
     • Maiyannah Bishop
     @deadsuperhero @cwebber @maiyannah seems like they envisioned an amazing city in the clouds, then tried to build a band new bridge to it ;P
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 05:45:04 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Matthew Davidson
     @mjd it's hard to be online and be completely untouched by those circles, think of our discussion here with Jeff Cliff
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 08:55:16 UTC Danyl Strype

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek I think in this metaphor "local governments" consists of the #IETF and #W3C.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 08:56:23 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek they lay out the routes (protocols), companies tender to operate services on them, and #TheStacks have ended up with all the routes
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 08:57:35 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek Keynesians would demand a return to full government ownership of the transit system, but you're right that this wouldn't work online
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 08:59:22 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek I prefer public ownership via platform cooperatives (in mass transit and the internet), as with all natural monopolies
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 09:04:46 UTC Danyl Strype

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek are you talking about local and state government, or the #IETF and #W3C? What you're saying applies increasingly to both and either
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 09:09:06 UTC Danyl Strype

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek no metaphor bears close examination ;)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 09:10:07 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek but election without active participation is an empty ritual, and a spokescouncil of recallable delegates *can* be more democratic
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 09:12:21 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek another difference is compliance with standards set by the #IETF and #W3C is optional, unlike local and state government (by)laws
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 09:13:56 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • rysiek ✅
     @rysiek but broadly speaking they serve the same social function, standardizing the rules of the game (transport of people or packets)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 23:57:15 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff @mjd as long as we agree, while it may not be ideal, that state issue and destruction (via taxes) of money is how money works now
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Wednesday, 03-May-2017 23:58:43 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @mjd @jeffcliff then we can start to discuss possible alternatives, grounded in reality, not goldbug myths (anti-semitic or otherwise)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 05:43:50 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     *sigh* we've been through this @jeffcliff . Just wanting cryptocurrency to be the dominant trade currency does not magically make it so
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 05:44:31 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff what Satoshi gave us was a new technology, just like the credit card was once a new technology, and PayPal, and the debit card
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 05:45:48 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff none of these magically changed the political-economic power relationships that money represents, and neither has cryptocurrency
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:11:09 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff your arguments imply that @mjd and I advocate for the status quo, and that we there need to justify it.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:13:19 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff I can't speak for @mjd but I'm not advocating for it, I'm just saying that it's still the status quo. States have power over $
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:13:49 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @mjd @jeffcliff although it may one day #BC, doesn't change that any more than the other technologies I listed.
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:14:52 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @mjd @jeffcliff because what needs to change is not (just) the technology of money, but the political-economic power that enforces its value
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:15:49 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @mjd @jeffcliff this is the point I've been making it different forms through this whole dialogue, and one you seem totally unable to grasp
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:17:40 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @mjd @jeffcliff in one of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books some idiots declare leaves to be currency, making them all millionaires
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:19:01 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @mjd @jeffcliff without a corresponding change in political-economic power, crypo$ are doing this, powerlessly declaring value to exist
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:21:28 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @mjd @jeffcliff and *please* don't reply that unlike leaves #BT are finite, I know that, but crypto$ in general are not
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:22:24 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Matthew Davidson
     • Jeff Cliff
     @mjd @jeffcliff there are new crytpo$ foaming into existence all the time, deflating the *perceived* (thus real) spending power of them all
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:55:05 UTC Danyl Strype

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff at the risk of sounding patronising, please read the whole sequence of arguments and digest them, then compose your reply
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:55:56 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff your responses make sense in the context of each chunk of the argument but are often already addressed and debunked in the whole
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:57:39 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff also, please implicitly include everything discussed in this *long* thread in the arguments I make, or we go in endless circles
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:58:19 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff perhaps this topic is just too complex to be discussed in 140char chunks? How about you re-read my blog post and blog a response?
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Thursday, 04-May-2017 13:58:41 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • Jeff Cliff
     @jeffcliff then I'll read your blog post a couple of times, and blog my own response
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2017 09:24:28 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • paulfree14
     @paulfree14 Developers don't necessarily need to be paid but they do need to be fed, housed, and clothed, and supplied with PCs and internet
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2017 09:25:25 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • paulfree14
     @paulfree14 I support the concept of providing these things without using money, but be aware this is a hugely ambitious project
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2017 09:28:37 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • paulfree14
     @paulfree14 I've thought about 'cybercommunes' inhabited by a combo of gardeners and geeks (and maybe some folk who fit both categories)
   • Danyl Strype (strypey)'s status on Friday, 05-May-2017 09:30:49 UTC Danyl Strype

     in reply to

     • paulfree14
     @paulfree14 the gardeners grow food & maintain stuff on the land, and the geeks work remotely to bring in $ to cover unavoidable cash costs